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Old 07-04-2006, 10:42 AM   #121
StonyLonesome
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Well, sorry. First off, I've never heard of a Mary Sue, so you can't really say I made Kelli one intentionally. She may have my name, but that doesn't mean I modeled her after me. For example, Kelli's pretty, I'm not. She's got mysterious abilities, I don't (well I sort of do, but those are different). And you know why Kelli resembles Link a bit in appearance. She's his cousin. And when did Kelli get saved twice in one chapter? You need to read this again. Her life was only saved once, not counting the incident with Ganondorf's followers. And those were in different chapters anyway. And her powers aren't magical. They're...well, let's just say magic has absolutely nothing to do with them.

Second, about the dialogue. Different stories need a different amount of dialogue (Steve actually told me this, but his story I read didn't have enough for the kind it is) and my story is the kind that needs a lot. But I get what you're trying to say about doing less explanatory dialogue. I'll do that more often. And about the comma thing. I did fix that in later chapters. I just forgot to go back and do it that in earlier ones.

And Steve, said should not be used too much. I learned that in school, and I've been using that tip ever since. Words like replied, exclaimed, mumbled, responded, cried, panted, protested, agreed, suggested, etc. are better to use and sort of "express" the way the character is saying what he/she is saying. Like for example, "panted" would show the character is sounding out of breath and tired. And using adverbs after those express the character's talking even more. For example, "cried, worriedly" would show that the character is crying out sounding worried. I only used said when I couldn't find a word to take its place. You get the idea now?

And about your comment about Sunfire, Chavvah, please don't call her stupid. She's actually pretty smart for a horse (ever wonder why she and Epona are always vanishing when they're left together?). And also, Sunfire's not supposed to be a war horse. She used to be used by Zelda to run errands and stuff, not by knights. And it's not like Kelli's ever had to go to a war, which she hasn't, despite the fact she has a sword and shield.

In conclusion, I see what problems I have to fix, and that I will fix. But Kelli's personality and stuff stays. It's too late to change that now. And trust me, she has her flaws. She hates heights. She's got plenty in common with Link (blonde hair, raised by the Kokiri, etc.). So just because it doesn't talk about her flaws that much, doesn't mean she doesn't have em'! But, in general, I'll fix my problems, k? Thanks for the criticism. ^_^
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Old 07-04-2006, 12:02 PM   #122
Chavvah
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She may have my name, but that doesn't mean I modeled her after me. For example, Kelli's pretty, I'm not. She's got mysterious abilities, I don't (well I sort of do, but those are different).

Mary Sues don't have to model after the author. They do, though, usually model a person they wish they could be. Considering how much fauning over her and her horse you do, I wouldn't be surprised if you DREAM of being her.

I'm not suggesting you have to redo this story--I understand you've gotten way into it to do too much overhaul (without killing yourself, anyway). But this advice, especially on Kelli's character, is to warn you for future stories. It's okay to write crappy stuff when you're just starting out, but you need to know that her kind of character is not the kind you want to create.

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And about your comment about Sunfire, Chavvah, please don't call her stupid.

(Sigh) Oh gosh, I'm so sorry I offended the animal. Please ask the beast to forgive me.

The "stupid" remark was not a judgement of intelligence. I was rather expressing my apathy towards its existence. I don't like it when talk of a "pretty, SPECIAL" horse mucks up my reading of a story. If there is anything I disdain more than a super-special female character who steals the show, it is her Satanic animal who also ambles into the scene and is portrayed as the pinnacle of horse-dom.

And though you may not intend the animal to be a war horse, if Kelli is a warrior, wouldn't it still make more sense for her to seek another breed? The problem my sister was pointing out to you was that you chose the breed solely because you think it's a pretty breed, and as a consequence did no research whatsoever. That's bad writing and bad decision-making.

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And you know why Kelli resembles Link a bit in appearance. She's his cousin.

Yeah, I know. I saw that a mile away, too, as I said (though originally I entertained the idea that she may be his sister).

But, a cousin? My cousins look nothing like me. You have a character with the same hair color and eyes--when it comes to cousins, the chance of that happening is pretty slim. Unless their parents were Aryan supremacists who only married other blonde, blue-eyed caucasians and happened not to have any other genes in the way. Blonde and blue-eyes are recessive traits, after all. Please don't retaliate with the "she has teal eyes, not blue," because teal is basically blue with a little green shade to it.

Also, flaws should be blindingly apparent and annoying. I should be able to tell, by reading the story alone, what her flaws are.

In conclusion, I guess, better luck next time? I think you should definitely keep writing, as long as you're able to note your errors and learn to edit what doesn't work. I don't know if this is your first crack at fiction, but it's definitely premature, and the best advice I have for new writers is "write like crazy, change for the better, and then write some more."

Edit:

P.S. I ran Kelli through a Mary Sue Litmus Test, and she scored off the charts as a Mary Sue. I had to make a few guesses, though, so if you're interested, I'd encourage you to try yourself.

http://www.onlyfiction.net/marysue2.html

Be honest, okay? In this one, you just have to check boxes. You can ignore some of the areas or questions (ex. don't check that she's an "elf," because everybody's an "elf" in Hyrule), but go as thoroughly as you can.

Also, here's another description of Mary Sue for you:

http://missy.reimer.com/library/guide.html#5

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Old 07-04-2006, 12:32 PM   #123
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Well, I guess Link and Kelli both happened to inherit blonde hair, huh? After all, their mothers were probably both blondies, and what adds to it is that because Kelli is mysterious in a way, she didn't inherit much from her parents.

And also, Kelli's not super special. She is special, but not that special. I mean, she's not COMPLETELY unique. Everybody's special, just never super special.

And how can cousins look nothing alike? It's possible yes, but chances are slim. I mean, I'm a blondie and most of my cousins are blondies too. There are even some that have both the same hair color and eye color as me. See? Cousins look alike in some ways most of the time.

And also, I didn't talk much about Kelli's flaws, because this story focuses mainly on Link's quest here, not on characters' lives. Same goes for the Zelda games. Link's flaws aren't talked about at all there, if he has any. Same with some of the other characters.

And also, I intend to reveal more about Kelli's flaws in future stories, since there's less action in those than in this one. I even intend to show some Link and Zelda may have. So sure, I'll do better in my next stories. And also, the bonus story I've mention has a lot less dialogue than this one, I'll have you know. The kind of story this is resembles the kind Steve's "Rich" story is, except I have more dialogue than he does, which means he did not have enough. But anyway, I'll be sure to do better next time.
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Old 07-04-2006, 12:59 PM   #124
Chavvah
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And how can cousins look nothing alike? It's possible yes, but chances are slim. I mean, I'm a blondie and most of my cousins are blondies too. There are even some that have both the same hair color and eye color as me. See? Cousins look alike in some ways most of the time.

Well, when one looks at it genetically, cousins are usually going to look pretty different, depending on who their parents marry. I have cousins who are quarter-Filipino, and as such are all dark-haired and brown-eyed, and also have darker complexions.

Quote:
because Kelli is mysterious in a way, she didn't inherit much from her parents.

Ahem. I don't think being mysterious is a physical state that renders a person immune to their parent's genes.

I'm a dirty blonde with hazel eyes, I have two siblings who are blonde and blue-eyed, and I have another brother whose hair is almost stark black. When there's that much variety between siblings, there's bound to be variety between the kids they have, especially if they marry different kinds of people. What if I marry a black guy and then my blonde sister marries another Aryan? Well, the kids are going to look nothing like each other, that's for sure.

I'm not disputing that it's possible for Link's cousin to also be blonde and blue-eyed. It's unlikely, though possible, especially because those traits are recessive.

The fact is, though, that to have a character who is related to a main character and is also a lot alike in appearance is cliche (it also made it easy to guess that they were related). Too many people have done it. Cousin is a little better than sibling, though, so for that I can forgive you.

I reread the beginning of your story and I think I might as well say something positive: You don't spend pages explaining every little description of her clothing and hair and so forth. A lot of Suethors like to describe their character in painful detail ("she was 5'6" and had a pink tanktop with yellow spaghetti straps and a heart in the center with sparkly jewels spelling out 'Las Vegas' and..."), and as you can imagine, it gets boring quickly. So at least I like the WAY you described her.

Again, though, I encourage you to check out the links I provide at the end of my previous post.
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Old 07-04-2006, 01:18 PM   #125
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Well, you should have noticed by now that Kelli's being mysterious did indeed have some effect on her appearance (ie the teal eyes). It definitely affected her genetically, because how would she have gotten her powers in the first place? She can't just mysteriously be born with the powers she has. Something caused them. And the first thing that comes into my mind when I think of how Kelli got her powers is genes.

I, too, am a dirty blonde with hazel eyes, yet, my half-brother is the only sibling related to me by blood that also has dirty blonde hair. My real parents are both dark haired. Also, I wear glasses, unlike my parents. See? I'm mysterious in a way, and yet, I didn't inherit much from my parents either.

So you can see how I got the idea Kelli shouldn't have inherited too much from her parents.
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Old 07-05-2006, 05:04 AM   #126
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I just thought of something. Someone said I should make Kelli a BA character, but I don't know how. I just looked over the character section thingy and it doesn't say how I can get my character approved. Can someone tell me how?

Also, I will be posting the bonus story soon, I'm just waiting until some people who've finished NP finish its trivia questions and its mystery. I don't want to go too fast. After all, slow and steady wins the race.
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Old 07-05-2006, 05:30 AM   #127
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Yep, I said that. Joining the BA is an excellent way to build up your writing skills, and have fun. You probably shouldn't mention that she's Link's cousin in the profile though, or it won't be approved because you have to be original. The main rules are here, and the character approval policy is here.

Hope that helped.
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Old 07-06-2006, 05:59 AM   #128
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Okay, I see. Do I have to PM one of the BA council members to get a character approved? It didn't say.

Well, anyway, it seems no one has answered those questions, but when did I say they had to be? I just remembered you don't have to answer them if you don't want to. You should, however, solve NP's mystery so you can get the little prize for solving it correctly. As for what the prize is...well, maybe I should reveal it. What do you guys think?

Also, I've decided to post the bonus story now. And look what it is! It's a story about Hyrule's favorite heroine, Kelli! Well, enjoy!

Kelli’s Story: The Tale of a Heroine

Hi, I’m Kelli, the Guardian of the Sun and wielder of the Sun Sword. Wonder how I became who I am? Are you sure you want to know? Well, it all starts with what Zelda told Link and I about our past. She told us that when I was a baby, Gerudos came and slaughtered my parents. I only survived because the Gerudos didn’t know I was even there. My parents had taken me into hiding with them in the back alleys of Hyrule Castle Town. When the Gerudos had come, they found my parents, but not me. My mother hid me and my father tried to fend off the Gerudos, as he was a castle soldier. But just moments after my mother put me behind a bench, a Gerudo grabbed my mother by the collar of her dress and stabbed her to death. Just seconds afterward, a few other Gerudos had pinned my father to the ground and then stabbed him to death. I just lay behind the bench, crying because I was probably hungry or something.
I’d been behind that bench for an hour when Link’s father found me. He’d been searching for his wife and son and happened to wonder into the castle town looking for them. Link’s mother had, of course, taken him to the forest, thinking his father was already dead. But when he found me, of course he’d be my uncle, he saw the dead bodies of my parents and me lying behind a bench crying. He picked me up and recognized me as the daughter of his sister-in-law. My mother and Link’s mother happened to be sisters, fraternal twins in fact. My uncle decided to take me to the forest, not knowing that was also where Link was. Shot with two arrows along the way, my uncle struggled to get me to safety. When he finally reached the forest, he collapsed on the ground in front of the Great Deku Tree and begged him to take care of me. Then my uncle died with me in his arms. The Great Deku Tree then summoned Saria. Though she had already been assigned to taking care of Link, she promised she’d have me taken care of too. She decided to get the two twins to help take care of me and Link. Apparently all three girls took turns changing our diapers, feeding us, and putting us to sleep. This was the only time we ever saw each other as young as we were. But of course, we weren’t meant to meet as kids, though our parents hoped for it. Why? I guess it is what you call fate. But fate was only part of it though. It was also partly my fault for this. And yes, I regret doing what I did, though I really had no choice.
When I was three years old, I wandered away from Saria’s house and I hardly ever came out to where the houses were. I always stayed near the Lost Woods and never showed my face often. Occasionally I would sneak to Saria’s house to get something to eat and then go back to where I would hang out. When I was four however, something happened to me that nearly changed my life forever. Mido found me wandering near the Lost Woods and was being a bit of a bother.
“Well, look who it is”, he said. “If it isn’t that weird girl that never shows her face, hehe”.
“Mido, go away. I’m not weird”, I said back.
“You are too. Kelli, you’re an outcast”, he stated. “So, why don’t you show your face, huh?”
“Mido, you better leave me alone or else!” I shot back. “I’m no outcast. I’m just like the rest of the Kokiri!”
“You are not. You’ve got no fairy. Face it, you’re a freak. A big freak!” he shouted and then laughed. I got angry.
“Well look at you! You’re a big bum!” I shouted as I grabbed the collar of his tunic. “You’re the biggest bum in the forest!!” Then he gasped and pulled away from me. He backed away from me as if I were some kind of monster.
“G-Get away from me!” he screamed and then ran away as fast as he could. I just stood there confused. Why did he run? I wondered until I decided to go to Saria. I was still angry when I got there, but I told her what happened.
“He called me a freak!” I said to her. I was so mad I felt like punching him. Saria gasped just seconds after I said that.
“Whoa! No wonder he ran!” she said. “Your eyes just flashed purple!”
“W-What?!” I replied, worriedly. “But how?” I was still quite angry, but I ran over to a mirror on the wall. My eyes flashed purple again. I gasped.
“Oh no! He was right. I am a freak!” I said.
“No you’re not. Go ask the Great Deku Tree about your eyes”, Saria suggested. I decided to take her advice and I left her house.
When I arrived at the Great Deku Tree’s meadow, I stopped in front of him and he spoke.
“Kelli, I am glad you have come”, he said. “Thou art courageous and wise and I have something to tell thee”.
“But my eyes flashed purple. I’d like to know if you know why”, I replied.
“Indeed, I do. That is what I need to tell thee. Thou art a very unique person, but what you don’t know is what amazing abilities thou has”, the Great Deku Tree replied. He tried to say something else, but got cut off by someone screaming in the distance.
“There she is! The freak of the forest! Let’s run her out of here!!” the person yelled. It was Mido. He had a group of other Kokiri with him. They started running towards me. Suddenly, Saria appeared behind them.
“Kelli! Run for it, quick!” she shouted to me. I ran as fast as I could out of the meadow with Mido and the other Kokiri following me. I ran to the Lost Woods and entered, Mido and the Kokiri still following me. I kept running through the Lost Woods until they stopped following me. By the time I stopped, I was so deep in the Lost Woods, I didn’t know where I was. I wasn’t even sure if I was still in the Lost Woods. I wandered there for a year, feeling lonely and thinking no one would find me. Or so I thought.
Soon after I turned five, I was sitting on a tree stump when I heard a ringing sound that sounded like the noise a fairy made when it flew. Then eventually, I saw a bluish-purple light floating between the trees. It came closer and I saw that it was a fairy. The fairy noticed me and stopped.
“Hi there. What’s your name?” it asked.
“I-I’m Kelli. Who are you?” I said back, nervously.
“My name’s Vira”, the fairy replied. “Hey, you look lonely. You okay?”
“Not really. I got ran out of the forest a year ago and I’m still upset about it”, I explained. “It’s because I’m so different”.
“Oh, I see. I had to leave the forest too because something happened” Vira replied. “I got separated from my sister, Navi because of that war between the races. I searched for her but I never found her, so I just came here”.
“Oh that’s sad. I’m an orphan, so I’ve got no family”, I said. “I’m supposed to be a Kokiri, but look, I’ve got no fairy companion”.
“Well, you’ve got one now”, Vira replied.
“You?”
“You got it”.
Vira and I became good friends from that day forth. We had fun together and I eventually forgot about being run out of the forest. I never felt happier in my life. Until that day. That tragic day that grief came back to me. It happened when I was eight. Vira and I were strolling through the woods when all of a sudden a Stalfos appeared out from no where. It attacked us and knocked me unconscious. I must’ve been out for at least five minutes because when I awoke, the Stalfos was gone. When I got up off the ground, I saw something else on the ground. It was Vira. I ran over to her to see if she was okay. But she wasn’t. Vira was dead. I couldn’t believe it. That Stalfos killed her. Tears built up in my eyes and I started crying. I lost my only friend. I was so upset, I decided to leave the Lost Woods for good. I would never set foot in that forest again for a long, long time. It was then I came upon Kakariko Village.
Kakariko was a peaceful place at the time, villagers going about their business and a few kids near the entrance to the graveyard. I sat down near the first house I approached, and just continued to be miserable. I thought I’d never get over Vira’s death. But eventually, I decided to take a look around the village and possibly meet some of the villagers. I was walking near the house closest to the entrance of the village one day when a boy who looked about my age saw me. He walked over to me. He had light brown hair and brown eyes and was just slightly taller than me.
“I’ve never seen your face around here before. What’s your name?” the boy asked.
“Oh, my name’s Kelli”, I replied. “What’s yours?”
“Mine’s Judo”, the boy said. “You look kinda lonely. You want to play with me?”
“Sure, I guess”, I said. “I am a bit lonely anyway”. As we played, Judo and I were getting along great. In fact, we eventually became really good friends, having many good times together. Once again I felt happy. But there was still more grief to come for me.
One day when I was nine, Judo’s mother called him in for lunch and noticed me behind him.
“Well, who might you be? A new friend of Judo’s?” she asked.
“Well, yes, I suppose”, I replied. “I’m new to this village”.
“Her name’s Kelli”, Judo added. I felt a bit shy, but happy at the same time. For I knew I had indeed made a friend. But Judo and I weren’t able to be around each other for long. Soon the conversation topic turned into me being a Kokiri and why I didn’t have a fairy.
“So, if you’re a Kokiri, Kelli, how come you have no fairy?” Judo asked.
“And why are you outside the forest?” Judo’s mother added.
“Please, I’d rather not talk about it”, I replied. “It’s a sad story”.
“Oh, you poor girl”, Judo’s mother said. “Well, if you don’t want to talk about it, that’s fine with me”.
“Did you lose your fairy, or something?” Judo asked. I felt tears building up in my eyes.
“Y-Yes. I got ran out of the forest and then a fairy came to me, but three years later, she was killed”, I replied, starting to cry. “But please, it’s so sad, I cry about it when I talk about it”. I covered my face with my hands.
“That is sad”, Judo’s mother said. “I’d cry too if something like that happened to me or Judo”.
“Yeah, me too”, Judo added. I unburied my face and smiled a little. But just as I gave the smile, Judo’s mother suddenly gasped, backed away, and dropped a cup she was holding. Judo just stood there with his mouth hanging open.
“W-What? What’s wrong?” I said, nervously. “Did my eyes flash purple?”
“No, they flashed yellow!” Judo replied, gasping. I gasped too and backed away a little, tripping over a small rock. I was still on the ground when Judo’s mother yanked him away.
“Judo, you stay away from her! She’s inferior!” she screamed. I felt scared. I found myself looking at my reflection in a window and my eyes flashed green this time. What in Hyrule was wrong with me? I did not know. Then I suddenly recalled what the Great Deku Tree had said. What you don’t know is what amazing abilities thou has. The words “amazing abilities” caught my attention. I knew it could only mean one thing. I had mysterious powers. My eyes changing color with my emotions was the first power I discovered I had. They flash purple when I’m angry, yellow when I’m sad, green when I’m scared, red when I’m embarrassed or very shy, and they just sparkle when I’m very happy. I asked myself, could this be the reason my normal eye color is Teal Blue? Then I knew it had to be. No normal person had Teal eyes. My powers, of course, did affect my destiny, for I had to use them during Link’s quest to rescue the sages. What other mysterious abilities do I have, you ask? Well, you’ll find out soon enough.
Soon, word went around about me. In no time at all, the rumor spread to Hyrule Castle Town and even to Lon Lon Ranch, the Gorons, Zoras, Gerudos, and Kokiri. Though I didn’t know it at the time, not everyone feared me. Malon didn’t and Judo didn’t. However, both of them knew they couldn’t make a difference. For what could they have done?
When I turned ten, so many people feared me that I got run out of Hyrule. I stayed very close to Kakariko, though. Then something happened to me one day, something that changed my life forever. I found the Sun Sword. I was wandering near the edge of Death Mountain and Kakariko when I fell into a dark underground cavern. I walked through it, passing lit torches and cobwebs along the way, and came to two treasure chests, both a slightly dark yellow-orange color, with pictures of a sun on the front. Of course those suns were pictures of sun switches Link mentioned that were from the Spirit Temple. How do I know about the Spirit Temple? Link told me about it of course. He told me about all the temples. But anyway, I opened one chest and I pulled out a sword, whose handle was the same color as the chests and bore the same symbol on the hilt. Then I opened the other chest and pulled out a shield, which was also the same color as the chests and also bore the sun symbol, but also had the Triforce mark above the sun symbol. The sword took note of me and I somehow took note of it too. Something in my mind was telling me I was meant to wield this sacred blade. I felt as if I was awakening as some sort of guardian or sage or something like that. Indeed, in a way I was. I “awakened” as the Guardian of the Sun. At that moment, I knew I was meant to wield the sword. Then I decided to leave Hyrule because if I’m meant to wield the Sun Sword and almost everyone there feared me, I may as well go on an adventure. So then I left the underground cavern (which I later on found out it was called the Sun’s Shrine) and set out on my adventure away from Hyrule, the Sun Sword and the Sun Shield at my back. This was how I found the land of Mayule.
An hour after I left Hyrule, I came to a land that was a bit similar to it. I was tired from walking, as the shield was about as big and heavy as a Hylian Shield and the sword was the same size as the Master Sword, meaning I had to hold it with two hands when I was ten and curling up in a ball on the ground with the shield’s surface facing up to use the shield.
The people of Mayule welcomed me and asked where I had come from. I said I was from Hyrule and I left because everyone there was afraid of me because I had mysterious powers. The Mayulians said they were just jumping to conclusions. I then found out Mayule and Hyrule were neighboring lands to each other and that they sometimes did trade and were at peace.
The Mayulians really didn’t mind me. They were quite nice and understood my mysterious powers clearly. I found out what other powers I had as well. I discovered I could sense love and I could sense danger. I discovered I could see through walls if I wanted to. I also found out I could look into the future sometimes. They also showed me what advantages and disadvantages my powers had. For example, my eye color changing with my emotions power had the advantage of showing people how I felt. But a disadvantage was people could always tell what emotion I’m feeling even if I wanted to keep it a secret. They also told me I had to be a Hylian and not a Kokiri, since I was growing up. And when I was twelve, I made up the song I taught Link, and when the Mayulians first heard my singing voice, they were fascinated. I also befriended Elna, the queen (Mayule had no king, just a queen) and her daughter, Princess Aline. Aline was only a year younger than me, and was a brunette with brown eyes. Elna, too, was a brunette, except her eyes were blue.
Soon the Mayulians discovered I had the Sun Sword and the one person in Mayule that knew the history of it told me what the Guardian of the Sun was supposed to do. I was supposed to fight the evil sun power hidden within certain monsters called “sun monsters”. Sun monsters could be in any kind of form from Keese to Stalfos to dungeon bosses. It was then I learned my destiny. I was a destined Guardian of the Sun and I knew I wanted to fight the evil sun power. So I then I worked on my sword skills so I could fight. I learned basic attacks like the horizontal and vertical cuts, the thrust attack, and the jump attack. I worked on my agility too. Once I mastered the basics well, I learned the parry attack and got pretty good with it in no time at all. I also learned the hurricane spin, which was one of the strongest attacks I could know. Eventually, I really wanted to test my skills on a monster. I sure got my chance.
When I was sixteen, I was busy practicing with my sword (by now I was able to wield it with one hand and hold my shield with the other) when an army of sun monsters attacked Mayule. They went all over the place, underground, in buildings, and even in Queen Elna’s castle. I knew it was up to me to save Mayule. I went all over the kingdom and destroyed every single sun monster that dared to show its face in front of me. I then decided to find out who was the mastermind behind all of this. It was a large sun monster by the name of Notu. I found him on the queen’s throne in her castle. He challenged me to a battle and we fought. We fought and fought and fought until finally Notu was so weak, he couldn’t fight anymore. He fell to the ground, coughing green blood. Of course, I thought it was gross, but at the same time I knew Notu was dying. I knew now that I was a true heroine. My sword skills were good enough to prove it.
When the Mayulians found out I destroyed Notu, they triumphed with joy. They named me a true heroine and decided to send the word to Hyrule. Once the Hyrulians received the news, they said they wanted me to come back and protect Hyrule until Link came back. They also said they were sorry for the way they had treated me. The Mayulians then received that message and I did indeed return and protect Hyrule. Of course, as you know, Link was away from Hyrule at this time, also sixteen, since he is the same age as me.
So when I returned to Hyrule, everyone welcomed me. Lots of people were there to see me. Malon was there, Saria was there, and even Zelda was there. Of course, I had forgotten about Judo, as I didn’t want to remember the horrid things that had happened to me as a child. Though, he probably was there as well.
A day later, a horse escaped from the castle and I soon heard about it. I decided I should keep an eye out for the horse, as it may get into trouble. Within a few hours, I spotted it near Lake Hylia and crept up to it. It was a palomino about the size of the horses at Lon Lon Ranch. It noticed me and I saw it had a saddle on. It was a beautiful horse that indeed looked royal. I stroked its mane gently and it seemed to like it. I eventually noticed it was a mare or female horse and of course I also noticed that it had to be the runaway horse because she wore bands on her ankles that bore the Triforce mark. I was so nice to the horse, she let me mount her and I rode her back to the castle.
When I arrived at the castle stable, Zelda saw me on the horse and gasped.
“Kelli! You found Sunfire!” she cried.
“Sunfire…is that the horse’s name?” I asked, feeling lucky to ride such a beautiful horse with a pretty name.
“Yes, she’s my favorite horse and I was so upset when she ran off”, Zelda replied.
“I can see why. She’s so beautiful. Her name suits her perfectly”, I said. I stroked the horse’s mane again.
“I think she likes you already, Kelli”, Zelda said. “I want you to keep her. You found her and now I’m giving her to you”. I gasped. Why would Zelda give up a horse she loves so much?
“But Zelda, I couldn’t! She’s your favorite horse,” I protested.
“Kelli, you deserve her”, Zelda began. “Sunfire is a very special horse, the only one of her kind in the land. You’re a heroine to us and the Mayulians and that’s why you deserve this horse”.
“Well, thank you”, I replied and left the castle, still on Sunfire. Now I was set. I had a horse, in Mayule I’d come up with the song I taught Link, and also in Mayule I found a bow, which meant I was ready to search for the Sun Arrows (of course, you know how I got those). So now I was truly ready to fight for Hyrule until Link came back. Some people even nicknamed me the “warrior girl”. And of course, that was because I was the only female warrior in Hyrule, but I now knew my destiny, I now knew what I had to do. I had to fight the evil sun power and wait for a Guardian of the Moon to be chosen.
If you’d like to know something else that happened, well, a few days later, a somewhat large group of sun monsters had attacked Lon Lon Ranch, and I lured them out into Hyrule Field. But soon, they got me surrounded and I wasn’t sure what to do. Suddenly, I heard the sound of a horse’s hooves. A knight with his helmet down came riding through the crowd of monsters and started destroying them. I helped. When we were done, I turned around to thank the knight, but he’d already disappeared. I had no idea who he was. It was strange.
So now you know how I became who I am and found my destiny. Now you know my story, what pain I suffered during my childhood, how I became a heroine, how I became…the Guardian of the Sun.

Well, what do you think? Not a lot of dialogue and very detailed. Mostly an original work too. The only things unoriginal about it are a few characters and part of the setting.
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Old 07-06-2006, 02:07 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StonyLonesome
Okay, I see. Do I have to PM one of the BA council members to get a character approved? It didn't say.
You make a thread and wait for a Council member to notice it. If it takes a while, PM someone reminding them.

Oh, and a piece of advice - when you post a piece of writing, separate the paragraphs instead of having one big block of text. Makes everything easier to read.

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Old 07-06-2006, 02:11 PM   #130
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Oh, okay. Triva questions for Kelli's Story coming soon!
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Old 07-08-2006, 01:47 AM   #131
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Aw c'mon, where are all the people who read my first story at? Where's dark master. lordof theforce, Jayolorin, and the rest of them? Hasn't anybody read my story about Kelli yet?

I would really like to get those trivia questions up. In fact, I'll put them up now. Remember the rules about the trivia!

1. Who slaughtered Kelli's parents?
2. Where did Kelli find the Sun Sword?
3. Who was Kelli's best friend just a year before she was run out of Hyrule?
4. What killed her fairy friend, Vira before she left the forest?
5. Where did Kelli spot Sunfire after she heard the horse ran away?
6. Who is Mayule's attacker?
7. How did Kelli forget Judo after being his best friend for so long?
8. Kelli said the Hyrulians had given her a little nickname. What was it?
9. Besides the Great Deku Tree and Mido, who helped Kelli discover her powers back at the forest?
10. Who was the knight that helped Kelli fight that group of sun monsters (it's kinda obvious)?
11. What did Mayule and Hyrule sometimes do?
12. What color was Notu's blood when he coughed it?
13. What do Kelli's eyes do when she's very happy?
14. what do they do when she's shy or embarrassed?
15. Who called Kelli inferior?

There. That's all fifteen of them. Have fun! The sequel sequence will begin once I get some more replies. In the meantime, I'll start writing the first story.
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:28 PM   #132
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UUUUURG.

Okay.

Where do I start?

1) Surprise! You haven't fixed your commas. All you've done is removed the commas from the exclamation and question marks--you've still managed, however, to not listen to me and put the commas and periods outside of the quotation marks.

Repeat after me: Inside the quotation marks! Inside the quotation marks! Inside the quotation marks! Inside the quotation marks!

2) I don't know too many kids who are three years old, yet can take care of themselves.

3) Mido is not evil; he's a bully, but he wouldn't run anybody out of the forest. Saria, or for that matter, the Great Deku Tree, wouldn't stand for it.

4) "Thou art a very unique person..." - Common but annoying mistake: nothing is "very unique." "Unique" means "one of a kind"--either you are unique or you are not. Therefore, all of these are incorrect: "a little unique," "somewhat unique," "very unique," "extremely unique."

5) No one could stay in the Lost Woods for 4 years and not turn into a Skullkid. That's why the woods are "lost"--whoever gets lost in them turns into a monster. Plus, there's no food, tons of monsters, and no shelter. Therefore, the Lost Woods are uninhabitable.

6) How would a fairy get killed by a Stalfos? Wouldn't the fairy just fly away, or dodge the blows? For that matter, I don't know that there's canonical evidence that fairies can get killed.

7) So here's the picture: Judo's mom is speaking with Kelli. They seem to be getting along. Judo's mom is being perfectly normal and friendly, and sympathizes with Kelli's plight. Then, Kelli's eyes change yellow. The mother's response? "Stay away from her! She's inferior!"

?!?!?

The heck? Yellow eyes mean a person's inferior?

A more natural response, I think, would be to scream "demon possession!"

8)
Quote:
The words “amazing abilities” caught my attention. I knew it could only mean one thing. I had mysterious powers. My eyes changing color with my emotions was the first power I discovered I had.

Color-changing eyes is not a mysterious power. It's more than likely a disease we don't have a name for yet. Or maybe it's just a typical sign of brain cancer?

Quote:
They flash purple when I’m angry, yellow when I’m sad, green when I’m scared, red when I’m embarrassed or very shy, and they just sparkle when I’m very happy.

Sorry, you've confused reality with anime. You fail at life; try again.

9)
Quote:
When I turned ten, so many people feared me that I got run out of Hyrule.

"OMG! She has eyes that change color! She must be dangerous!" = Just about the stupidest reaction ever. Are these humans we're talking about?

10)
Quote:
The Mayulians really didn’t mind me. They were quite nice and understood my mysterious powers clearly.

If the Mayulians understand her powers, then they aren't mysterious, are they?

Since you've before shown that you think being "mysterious" is the reason for everything, let me clarify: "mysteriousity" is not a state of being! If something is "mysterious," it means there is a lack of information about it! "Mysterious" does not mean, contrary to what you may think, "cool" or "magical."

11) For that matter, "Mayule?" That's two letters away from "Hyrule." I think a separate kingdom would be more creative in its name (also, if there ARE other kingdoms, they would almost definitely not be on the same island as Hyrule).

12) I still hate the horse.

13) "Coughs green blood," eh? Sort of like GANONDORF?

14) I'm so tired that I can't think of anything else right now.

Ultimately, you still haven't fixed the major problem of your story: Kelli. Why?

KELLI IS A MARY SUE. Repeat as many times as necessary.

Not only that, but she's an irredeemable Sue. That means the only cure is to (violently) put her down. You noted quite a bit earlier that you've never heard of a Mary Sue, so I can't claim you made Kelli one intentionally. Sorry, but NOBODY makes a Mary Sue intentionally (unless parodying them). That's the point. Essentially, a Mary Sue is an original character that is inserted into a story, but isn't so original as the author thinks.

Let me put this as simply as possible: Kelli is not a good character. Kelli is boring. Kelli is cliche. Kelli needs to go home and stay out of your stories. No matter what you say, and no matter what you do, if your story has Kelli in it, the story will not be very good.
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Old 07-10-2006, 05:06 PM   #133
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Chavvah: You make a very good case. Thank you for saying absolutely everything I was too tactful to make myself get up on a pedistal and rip my hair out and proclaim loudly.

You've been very angry at all who try to give you advice, it seems; you say you'll keep Kelli and blah blah, and I know it's too late to change it all, but for future reference, so you don't have to go through this again"

Reasons Why Kelli is an Utter Mary-Sue
1. The "Orphan" Thing- one of the essential qualities of a Mary-Sueis to have an angsty past; having lost both parents is an ultimate milestone in Suedom. Right there, you could drop everything else and say she's somewhat of a Sue.
2. Relation to Link- In most cases, this one included, if a character in a fanfiction is the sibling of cousin of a hero, that's instant obnoxious n00bie-author Sue material. Not only is it a quality of Suedom but it also illustrates lack of creativity.
3. Social Pariah, Woe is Me- Boo-hoo. Misunderstood little innocent kid. Soooob. Nobody loves me. Everybody hates me. Social torture. KEY ingredient in Mary-Suedom. Puh-lease, stop trying to make us like your character by making them pity them. It's a cheap Sue-ish tactic.
4. Mysterious Mysteries of Strange Mystery- She's mysterious! She's mystic! Look at her eyess! She's SPECIAL! Oh, come on. That's not cool. Nor is it creative. It's just kind of annoying. I mean, the one that no one understands? Sooo cliche.
5. SUPUH POWERS!- A sense of when danger is coming? X-RAY VISION?! Neither are creative and both, especially the latter, are kind of out-of-place in Hyrule. They're also extremely over-done and give her yet again another Sue-ish quality- "unique powers that no one else has". Puh-leeease.
6. The CHOSEN ONE!- Well, she's not called the chosen one, but. uh, she's a guardian, get's all sort of sooped-up weopons, and is suddenly OMG a HEROINE. And people seemt o worship the ground she stands on. And everyone loves her. Don't make me gaaag.
7. Sword Mistress!- who the heck taught her to be one of the best warriors in the land? Yet another Sue-ish quality for dear old Kelli.

Despite the fact that you've been extremely stubborn with this one, I'm looking foreword to your next work. Hopefully, Kelli will not be in it. You're improving but Kelli's character is completely holding you back.

Get rid of her kind of character and you'll be well on your way.
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Old 07-11-2006, 01:47 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavvah
People say and do things in the midst of dialogue--make face, noises, move their body, and so forth. They also, more than often, say things with emotion--say things happily or anxiously or angrily. Take time to describe the activity and emotion that goes on during the conversation, and it will seem much more fleshed out.
Yes. Many times people say things emotionally. They will say things harshly, angerly, eagerly, sarcastically, etcly.

I don't know where you're going with this paragraph. Are you telling her to use adverbs in her dialogue, or telling her to write in a way that will show the meaning of the adverb. I will explain my point of view on the subject.

I don't like adverbs. They are most of the time unnecessary.

"The Road to Hell is paved with adverbs" Stephen King - On Writing

I agree with him. Most of the time adverbs are superfluous. He goes on to describe while adverbs in dialogue are superfluous, and just plain bad writing. Basically what the book says is that reflects how the writer writes. A poor author will load his or her work with adverbs because they don’t believe that their writing is strong enough to hold it’s own without forcing in every type of descript word they can think of. He says the writing should be enough to show how the person is talking. For example, I‘ll take something I had said in Farore:

Quote:
The wind blew, and it was a night that smelled of spring. James walked alone in a dark park. They did him good. He was a writer and got his inspiration best at night.
"I reckon them trees have eyes," croaked a man crazily.
"Excuse me?" James asked as he walked towards the darkness wearily.
"The trees. Reckon them have ears." Replied the man, unintelligently.
"And why would you say the trees have ears?" James asked. He walked a little closer and curiously sat next to the old man.
"A little birdie told me," laughed the decrepit man.
The old man got up from the bench, leaving James alone. They never saw each other again.

This, a simple prose I made up, was to exemplify how adverbs can be abused in writing. Half of them are not necessary, and the other half would not be had the opening paragraph been stronger and more descript, not to mention the poorly written quality of it. Let me break it down.

Crazily? Have you ever heard a man in his right mind say he thinks trees have ears?
Croaked? Lawl bookism. A man cannot croak. (Now if you said “said hoarsely, I can forgive you, I will explain later.)
Asked? Yeah, asked is properly used. Yay asked! I guess…
Wearily? Does one simply sleigh into Mordor? No, they do it wearily! The same with most people walking through a disembodied voice in a dark park at night. It’s a given.
Replied is okay. Superfluous, but okay. Unintelligently? Who ever said not using proper grammar makes you stupid. You don’t know the level of his intelligence. He can be a genius! Bad writing, bad, bad writing.
Curiously? Meh! It might be okay, but if you sit down to a random old man, do you ever do it without curiosity?
Laughed? Can a man laugh out a sentence? Try it, it’s not easy. Dispose of such!

And in the clamor of the whole bookism and adverbs, did we even introduce the old man? No he was just there.

This is how I would write something like that:

Quote:
The night wind blew through the trees and carried with it the sweet smell of the spring grass. These nights James walked alone in the park. The fresh air, he felt, did him good, for he spent his days alone in his house, writing. The pages came to him on those nights, in that park, and some nights he would greet not only words, but inspiration.
"I reckon them trees have ears." A voice said, breaking the darkness.
"Excuse me?"
James walked a few paces until he could just make out the face of an old man sitting on a park bench.
"The trees. I reckon them have ears."
"And why would you say trees have ears?" James walked a little closer and sat down next to the old man.
"A little birdie told me," the old man said after a laugh, and walked off, never to cross paths with James Edwin again.

Aye, it’s not the greatest example I could have written, or the most exciting. It shows the point though, that one doesn’t need adverbs in dialogue to get the point across. We have a conversation going back and forth, without using adverbs. And to take the tedium of said every line, I just have it going back in forth with no identifier a lot of the time. It only says said twice, and 2/5 isn’t horrible, and I could have worked it to one if I wanted. (I will get to said later.


This is how adverbs can take away from your writing. Are they always bad? No. Not always. Should they be avoided if at all possible? Yes, yes they should. There are times in your writing that adverbial clauses are needed. Depending if the way something is read can be read in many different ways. I don’t mind if one uses an adverb to tell something was said sarcastically or something of that manor. Sometimes even the best writers cannot get that point across, no matter how strong the dialogue. Now for an example of when I wouldn’t mind them being used. Poe in the Masque of the Read Death has in dialogue that the character says something hoarsely. Now, unless the author wastes his time saying that the character has a hoarse voice or something, which would be worse than any adverb. When the situation arises that you can’t use anything else other than an adverb to explain the situation. King also said something to the effect of looking at adverbs in a way that a couple in dialogue is okay, but too many will over do your writing, make you look like you’re trying too hard, make you look like you’re a weak writer that can’t convey an emotion in another way, and just make your writing look bad. In short, do not use adverbs to fix your poor dialogue, make it stronger. Adverbs, while getting the point across if used in excess will make your writing a hell of a lot weaker.

They take away from the action. They take away from the story. You want to write in such a way that shows you as being invisible, hiding you from the reader.

That’s just my idea of adverbs. Don’t agree, meh. I have some links if anyone would like explaining my point better by actual authors. Like:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~yarnspnr...bs/adverbs.htm

For one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StonyLonesome
And Steve, said should not be used too much. I learned that in school, and I've been using that tip ever since. Words like replied, exclaimed, mumbled, responded, cried, panted, protested, agreed, suggested, etc. are better to use and sort of "express" the way the character is saying what he/she is saying. Like for example, "panted" would show the character is sounding out of breath and tired. And using adverbs after those express the character's talking even more. For example, "cried, worriedly" would show that the character is crying out sounding worried. I only used said when I couldn't find a word to take its place. You get the idea now?


“To use adverbs is humans, but to use he said or she said is divine.” - Paraphrased, Stephen King - On Writing


Now to the use of identifiers in speech. Here is my stand, as is Stephen King’s, as you can tell by his quote. Said is the best word to use as an identifier. Why is that? For one use of words such as “exclaimed” “clamored” “argued” “pontificated” , or if you’d like some of your own brand of these, “added” “protested” “concluded.”

Tell me, why are these better to use than good old said? I don’t want to hear your teacher in 5th grade gave you that tip. Teachers in 5th grade know **** about writing prose sometimes. Just because it is taught in grammar school, doesn’t mean once your at a higher level, it won’t hinder you. I really want a good solid explanation why said is not a good word to use most of the time, because right now I am calling you out on bull ****.

My side of the story, the use of said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialogue_(fiction)

Read this. Don’t just laugh at the link, read it. Wikipedia may not be the most credible site ever, but it’s damn fine. I demand you to read that before you read the rest of my post.

http://www.writing-world.com/fiction/said.shtml This, though I cannot say is a very credible source at all is an awesome read about the subject.

I really don’t have anything else to say on the use of said, other than what she said herself. Read those two links. Read up on the use of bookism in your dialogue, show me links with evidence showing bookism should be used in the excess that you have in your writing. You shouldn’t use said only when you cannot think of a word to use other than said. You should use another word than said when you cannot possibly use said to get the point across.

Here’s a link on the said bookism:

http://writingcraft.deep-magic.net/article.php?id=43

That I too can not give a creditable source to. That does not take away from the fact that the information it contains does not agree with what many other published writers feel. That just explained it very well. Better than the second link. Bookisms may be okay, but not used to the excess you do. There may be no way around it, but sticking to the divine “said” is always a safe bet.

Yes, there are some authors with published books who use adverbs and bookism to an excess. Why are they allowed to? There ability to string a story together eclipses any form of adverbial clause they can use. JK Rowling does this you say. I read those books for the story, not to respect her writing. As it is said in those links, if you use said bookism to the degree you do in your story, Stony Lonesome, your work will be laughed at. You don’t use that many adverbs, and I don’t even know why you said that last part and made me explain the whole thing to you, but your use of the said bookism needs fixing, fast. Look at it this way, there wouldn’t be a name for them if there wasn’t something wrong about them. I’m just trying to help you, not give you a personal attack.
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Old 07-11-2006, 03:18 AM   #135
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Now normally I wouldn't have an issue with this. I would offer a few suggestions and allow this author to live and learn. However, I am actually glad you are recieving negative reviews, (most of them very blunt reviews). With luck you will be taken down a notch and will refrain from being so incredibly arrogant in the future. I recommend instead of trying to counter every single one of these people's suggestions, listen to them, and apply them.

By arrogant I mean that you have frequently refferred to your story as if it were a masterpiece. That, however, is generally frowned upon, and is known as arrogance. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your work, but when you get to the point where you think everyone else is wrong when they comment on your story, you've crossed the edge. The only reason the comments have become this extreme is that we are sick of seeing you attempt to counter every suggestion made, so we've decided to throw some "suggestions" in your face hoping that maybe THEN you'll understand.

Granted: you may love this story beyond all belief, but these people aren't trying to change you're story, they're offering very simple suggestions that would not alter the message of your story whatsoever.

The main thing that irks me with this story is the way you use the word "mysterious". You seem to use it when you, the author, are in fact "mystified" about your character. It would seem to me the only reason your character has these abilities that she does, is that you want her to. I suppose, this does in fact make her "mysterious" but she cannot be a mystery to you as well. Everything has to have a reason, and since you created her you should at least have a reason as to why she has the abilities that she does. Oh, by the way, swapping the word mysterious for magical doesn't count.

I'm not saying these "abilities" you have are good, but cut down on the use of the word mysterious...... please.

There's so much more I could say but everyone else has done a good enough job of that. I can only hope you will take the harsh and raw advice offered to you here and apply it to your story.

If not... I honestly pity you, and can only hope you will grow out of that mindset.

PLEASE take heed to what these people are saying PLEASE.
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